> > Although I think that we are still dealing with problems caused by past actions in a somewhat more direct manner than the butterfly to tornado analogy - the original action was done with intention here -
>
> I'm quite sure the butterfly intended to flap its wings, though. Granted, a butterfly is not committing a crime by flapping its wings, but the point I was trying to illustrate is, even if it were, it could not also be held accountable for causing the storm. Similarly, the proponents of slavery in American history are at fault for the ills caused by slavery. But not also for the ills caused by this, caused by that, caused by this, caused by that, caused by slavery. Or at least it is not practical to think in those terms.

Oops. I guess kind of expressed myself wrong on the butterfly thing. What I was trying to get at is that when I learned about it, it was given the title of chaos theory. To me, the connection from flap to storm is much more tenuous than that of slavery or Native Americans.

> As far as the uncertainty goes about where to draw the line between current problems and history that needs to be put behind us, I share that uncertainty. If I had lived around, say, 1900, I'm not sure I could speak as confidently about what would be just. But I think 137 years since the abolishment of slavery puts us out of the gray area.

I've been thinking about this thread in terms of a slightly different issue, as I think I've mentioned, and that's Native Americans on reservations. I've read a few articles on the conditions of life - high alcoholism, violence, unemployment. Now, to say that these things are results of the "Europeans" arrivals seems to me a very chaos theory type of connection, and there problems probably have many sources. But reservations were created after the arrival of the Europeans, and these things followed. I think you, or someone else in this thread mentioned earlier that there is no law forcing Natives to stay on reservations, but there are many other kinds of pressures that may do that just as efficiently.
To me, this is a problem that hasn't been solved yet. And I'm not sure where I've ended up on this one, because, as I said, I think that, even if I wanted to, it is a weak link. Although I do agree that we should be solving these problems for their own sake, I'm not sure that full justice will have been done.

Maz"extremely confused now"er31